It was a long time waiting around the Commodore Ballroom in the mid-afternoon, watching the line of media file past Buck 65, before a group of awe-struck-looking guys came wandering in through a back door, glancing wide-eyed around the space they were in. I recognized the lithe Matthew Barber off the bat and approached them and their Warner label representative for the day to make sure they were in the right state to sit down and chat with me for a few minutes.

Already, the band members (under the moniker The Union Dues) who support Barber live had seemed to make the assumption, as soon as the word “interview” was uttered, that they wouldn’t be needed, and had meandered off in the direction of their road manager and the merchandise table. I chatted briefly with Barber and then asked if he could round up his bandmates and go up to their backstage room to talk. He seemed a little surprised by the request, but he immediately did just that, and moments later, we found ourselves tucked into their closet-sized opening-opening band room. It wasn’t too long before the reason for the surprise at having the whole band along was revealed. “This is actually the first time we’ve ever done an interview with the band,” Barber explains, as he and the rest of the group pass around some apples and chips that had just been brought up to them by a venue staffer. He continues the theme later when I ask how they all came together, “I try to mention [the band] but nobody pays attention. They just want to hear from me.” Clearly, they enjoy being together, feeding off one another. The whole interview consisted of the guys interjecting humourous comments and appending the things Barber was saying when I had questions directed more his way.

It’s the type of thing that’s difficult to avoid with a band of this nature, which consists of a primary songwriter that holds the foremost name of the project, backed by a bunch of guys who still contribute invaluable things to the entity. The band as it is, now based out of Toronto, began almost a year ago in the cities surrounding the same area. Barber had of course been playing his own music years before this, and he collected his band from various people he’d met through gigging or school. His bassist, Julian Brown, he’d known from the area for a couple years. His drummer, Joel Stouffer, used to play in a band called Flux AD that did a gig with a then-solo Barber, and later on, when Barber was getting set to promote his independent full-length release, Means And Ends, he gave Stouffer a shout to see if he wanted to play some shows. After that, he just ended up sticking around. “I don’t think [Barber] ever officially asked me to join the band. It just kind of just kept going. I’m still here,” Stouffer says with a grin. Guitarist Paul Kolinski came by way of a meeting in a laundromat during college four years earlier, though Kolinski, who proved to be the witty one of the group, corrected that with, “Well actually, the story is, I’ve been following Matt since I was about five years old. Following him all over the place, and I finally got to meet him in Ear Falls, Ontario in 1999. Then eventually when I worked up the courage, I told him I played the guitar. And then it took him about five years for him to go, 'Hey, Paul plays the guitar!' and then he asked me to be in the band. I still keep three paces behind him at all times.” Kolinski also spent the entire preshow time taking photographs of everything, including me almost taking photographs of him. Conversation then turned to the comedic nature of his toque, but that’s another story entirely.

Now that we’ve officially met everyone and are well acquainted, let’s dig a little deeper. We settled into the pace fairly well after the group spent some time discussing Cord, how best to place the microphone and commenting on how it was recording. Brown used the mic for a moment as his personal audio diary. “God, I hate this traffic jam…why do I do this every day? I wonder how many years it will take me until I can afford to quit this job?”

Well, that might be a bit uncertain, but Barber quit his back in November. It’s one of the things he’s been able to do since being picked up by Warner and releasing a six-song EP, The Story Of Your Life, under them. “The major differences [between being on a major label and being on an independent label] are, there’s more money to work with, which is nice. There’s a lot more people that work for Warner. It’s kinda weird, you know. I’m still just getting used to it. And you get treated like a more serious musician or something. You get taken out to meals and stuff like that and they seem to have an endless entertainment budget. I don’t know where it comes from.” While it’s not necessarily all glitz and glamour for Barber, he appreciates the fact that he can cite being a musician as his job now. Brown interjects, “Well if you have to work forty hours a week before you even pick up your guitar, it’s very different than actually having time to improve as a musician in the daytime.” Barber has a realistic view of the Warner signing. “I felt like it was an opportunity to be a full-time musician and I didn’t know if I would ever have that opportunity again in my life. I thought, well, you know, here’s basically, even a financial opportunity to be able to really work on just touring and making a record, and that’s tougher to do on an indie [label].”

So was he concerned at all about making that leap, possibly becoming distanced from his fans, or surrendering his art to a conglomerate that just wants to sell, sell, sell?

He relates that he doesn’t feel like he has an enormous fan base that would decry him as a sellout, even though he’s expressed such concerns in the past. Being that this is the band’s first big, cross-Canada tour under the major label, they still have a lot of winning people over to do, and Barber feels that, in that regard, they really still have an indie mentality. “I don’t think the music’s changed enough for people to consider it to be a sellout you know.” The band cracks up the serious conversation here when Brown, deadpan, adds, “Yeah I mean, I was concerned about that when [his] record, which he did it originally himself, pressed up his own, I thought he was a sellout when he went with [indie label]Paper Bag.” Kolinski replies, “I thought he was a sellout from the moment he picked up a guitar, man!” Brown finishes with, “He was out busking, and someone chipped a quarter in, and that’s it, it was over.”

When the laughter dies down, Barber continues on his thoughts on the concept of a sellout. “It’s easy to… be a music fan of maybe of someone who’s never going to actually have the opportunity to be offered a record contract. And I would say six years ago when I was doing a college radio show, and playing all independent stuff, I think my view of signing to a major label then versus my view now has changed, and maybe that’s just because I’m a bit older and I’m sort of starting to understand the harsh financial reality a little bit. I always have the fact that, when I was having my first few meetings with Warner, I had no expectations… I just thought it was fun, you know, go out and have a free meal, and I wasn’t gonna suck up to them or anything. I was just myself, and they wanted to do it, so I thought, ‘Well okay, these people… they’re music fans and they want to work with me, and that’s flattering.’” Brown brings up a related topic. “It’s interesting too how, for instance, Celine Dion, the fact that she’s a super, major star is really most of her glamour to her fans. And some people say, ‘This person’s a sellout!’ I’m not saying Celine Dion specifically, but they’re a sellout, but that’s why their fans like them, and it doesn’t even occur to them how much they’re being marketed to. They don’t care! They just like it.”

Warner has also been very good about not forcing them to change their music style, which would have rubbed Barber the wrong way for sure. “[Keeping creative control] is very important. That’s probably the number one. I can definitely say that Warner hasn’t gone down that road [forcing them to change things] in the least with us. We’re still able to pick songs and a studio and producer… I appreciate that they respect me to be able to make decisions like that… I mean as far as major label deals go, it’s a fairly modest one ... I think they have other deal structures for certain artists that they want to make big stars. Probably a whole lot more input in terms of decisions. Whereas with us… I think they like my songs, so it would be kind of silly to mess with that,” he explains.

He came into being with Warner via their approach to Barber’s manager, Evan Newman. Prior to that, Barber had been spinning disc’s as a DJ in a university radio station, where he and his co-host were afforded all the freedom in the world to play experimental and world music, as well as Canadian indie tunes that he drew from for his own music to a point. He was also releasing music through Paper Bag Records, as earlier stated. To clear the air, there was not so much malaise between Barber and the Paper Bag label as has been implied. It’s much simpler than all that. “The decision to go with Warner wasn’t really clouded by really feeling super-attached to Paper Bag. I mean they helped so much and I owe a lot to Paper Bag for sure. But I didn’t feel like I was part of something that was really, you know, a tight scene that I felt was really beneficial for my music. I guess I felt a little bit separate from the scene that revolved around Toronto.” Things would be much different though had Warner not come knocking. “I think I would have done a full-length [instead of an EP]… Warner didn’t say, ‘Oh it’s gonna be an EP.’ We kind of hashed that out when we were talking to them… So when the full length comes out it wont be just coming out of nowhere … you know there’ll be hopefully some anticipation for it. A bit of a fan base already.”

To make things even easier during a hurried, eight-day recording session for the EP, Barber rerecorded two songs from Means And Ends. One of them, “Sentimental Acumen,” is a pepped-up version from its earlier incarnation and closes The Story Of Your Life. They chose to rerecord that one simply because of its popularity. The other track that was rerecorded didn’t make the final cut. “We did a really different version of 'Sleep In Peace.' It was really quiet and acoustic, whereas on the record we recorded a kind of louder, full band sounding version of it.”

While Barber revels in the ability to just concentrate on touring and writing for the next record now that the business aspect is being taken care of by others, he also finds himself putting more demands onto himself than ever before. “I feel a little bit of the pressure to have a good bunch of songs for the next album. Not pressure in a bad way. And it’s only pressure that I’m putting on myself. I feel like my approach to songwriting is different from the last album just because, the last album, I didn’t have to make an album, you know. I just wanted to make an album. I had all these songs. Now it’s like, okay, we’re on a schedule. We’re making an album in a few months and we’ve gotta have songs together for it.” Stouffer adds, “Yeah but other than the time constraint, creatively I think probably it’s the same pressure in that you want to do it good, if not better than the last album, right? … So I think that pressure is good almost, to have the time constraints to get your butt in gear.”

So far, the band feels little to no concern over how that EP has fared, or how the full-length in the future will fare, via sales versus downloading, or if that’s even an issue for them. At the time of this interview, the EP had been out for a month and a half, and they had no clue how many units they’d moved, or how many more they might have moved in a non-internet world. “I haven’t even investigated that to tell you the truth. I’m not really too into the whole online music world. I don’t download anything myself. Not because I have any ethical objection to it or anything, I’m just not very computer-savvy really. I mean, I wouldn’t be surprised if somebody’s posted it up somewhere,” Barber says. “For someone like me, I don’t think downloading’s a major issue really. Because I think we’re still at the point where more people can find out about us through the internet. That’s a plus, you know. I doubt there’s a lot of people who were really hotly anticipating the new Matthew Barber EP and downloading it as soon as it came out and didn’t buy it. I mean, maybe I’d be shocked to find out how many people there were…,” he continues.

Kolinski mentions that the slack in record sales could be picked up via people still coming out to the live shows instead. Stouffer continues the thought, “It seems like the live portion of the industry seems to be like the place that hasn’t been hurt yet, you know what I mean? People are still going to shows and that though. But definitely records… I work part time in a record store back in Toronto, and I’ve noticed, maybe over the past four or five years, that it’s definitely gotten slower and slower each year. Especially around the holidays. Holiday’s really when you notice it right… so I think that the focus is on live now... And the record industry has gotta find some way to make profits through the internet.”

Barber’s music is, as is the case with many bands these days, difficult to pinpoint. The critics’ struggle to come up with an adequate term for his project has been a source of frustration, due to the dangers of misrepresentation. “Yeah I don’t really like the term singer-songwriter, but whatever, it’s pretty ingrained now,” he says. On that note, he accepts that it’s going to be something he will be known as, fitting in with the current musical landscape in Canada particularly, but he doesn’t want to be seen as a one-trick pony. “I’m a huge Neil Young fan… But I mean he’s like the archetypal singer-songwriter who still rocks you know, and he can kind of put on both hats and I guess that’s how I would ultimately like to see myself, on that sort of model. ‘Cause I’d like to be able to do the solo shows if the context is right and everything, but you know I also would love to be able to play with the band.”

Another concern with the singer-songwriter tag is the images it conjures of a slow, mellow sound. Stouffer describes it, “I think there is a difference [between the rock crowd and the singer-songwriter crowd]. When people think ‘singer-songwriter,’ they think ‘Ron Sexsmith.’ When people think ‘rock n roll,’ they think, ‘Neil Young,’ even though Neil Young could be technically considered a singer-songwriter. But there’s just a certain vibe that you think of when you think of… think of a mellower kind of vibe…” Barber adds his own two cents, “Yeah it does. And I guess that’s why it bothers me a little bit. I do have some really mellow songs, but I don’t want people to always, if they see my name on a poster and I’m playing with the band, and… well that’s another story. I wont get into the fact that it just says my name on the poster but I have a band. That’s another issue altogether. But for me, I don’t want people to just think, ‘Oh, sensitive singer-songwriter, that’s kind of boring,’ ‘Cause our live show, like tonight, is really not boring. And it’s not even quiet either. It’s quite loud.” Kolinski interjects that there are indeed quiet moments in the show. Barber elaborates, “Yeah there’s quiet moments. I mean there’s a difference between us and a full-on rock n’ roll band. It’s… full-band-backed singer-songwriter I guess. But at some moments, there’s no difference between that and like, the Rolling Stones or something.” He adds sheepishly, “Basically I just said we’re as good as the Rolling Stones.”

Everyone has a good laugh at this, and Kolinski can’t help but run with it. “We got a lot more dynamics than they do!” This gets everyone going. Brown yells, “That’s a quote!” and Stouffer reads out an imaginary headline, “Barber says, ‘Better than Rolling Stones.’” Kolinski adds, “‘Indirectly, through guitarist.’”

On top of having to deal with coining an appropriate description for his sound from those who want to know, Barber has also had to dodge uncountable comparisons to another Canadian musician, who received critical acclaim a year and a half ago much like Barber is now - Sam Roberts. He’s heralded all over the place as being “the next Sam Roberts,” and at possibly being an indication of "the way" artists will break in from now on. Superficially, there are indeed a number of similarities : the aforementioned media attention; the general age; an EP released widely; the structure of the band and the name; even the EP artwork simply featuring each respective musician’s face on the cover has drawn comparisons. But based on that, a number of people have come to determine that they are strikingly similar artists musically, when in reality, they can only be grouped together in the most vague of categories. Kolinski sums up, “Sort of rock n roll, sort of scraggly-faced on the cover, sort of singer-songwriter rock n’ roll. But other than that, I don’t know, we don’t sound like Sam Roberts.” Barber cites it being “weird” and “ridiculous” to have such consistent thoughts being expressed by media across the country, but despite the fact that Roberts has a strong Canadian presence that Americans have yet to fully latch on to, the band doesn’t feel like the comparisons to him in the press will hurt any attempts to break into the US market, which they fully intend to do. “I don’t know if [comparisons to Roberts] will have any effect on breaking into the US market. I’m not really sure,” muses Barber. Stouffer adds, “I think US press is oblivious to Canadian press. I don’t think it can hurt at all.”

Continuing his thoughts on breaking into other markets, Barber continues, “I would love to… I mean, we’re having a great time on this tour and everything, but it’s a big major undertaking to tour Canada. It would be nice to be able to go down and play the same number of shows in the same time period, but actually only have to drive two or three hours every day and have some time to hang out and stuff. So basically just I’d love to tour down there. And I’d love to go to Australia and tour there. It’s a neat way to travel. I think it’s easier to be financially successful too as a band in some places other than Canada. There’s a lot more universities in the states and, and I think our band’s a band that would go over well with the university crowd.” Brown mentions that you can reach ten times as many people in the US. Stouffer finishes the thought succinctly, “And I mean the point of writing a song is to communicate to people, right? So the more you can communicate to people, the better. Why not reach more people if you can?”

It’s not much longer before the band’s tour manager calls upstairs to get them ready for soundcheck. We walked downstairs and back into the room. Kolinski kept walking around photographing things, and Barber perched on the edge of the stage to watch his showmates, Matt Mays + El Torpedo, who he mentioned he was very honoured to tour with, go through their soundcheck. Watching Barber play later on that night, I was reminded of something he’d mentioned during the interview that reflected on a comment by Kolinski.

“Singer-songwriter-rock-n-roll. Maybe I’ll just try and make that a new genre.”

Elsewhere

By Andy Scheffler
Photos : Andy Scheffler
Published : April 22, 2004.